Let me preface this note by saying that I respect your right to participate in such an event and respect that you are getting involved in a cause you believe in.
Now let's get down to business.
I do not know the motivation behind your decision to participate. For some of you, it is certainly a religious stand and I do not begrudge your freedom to express your religious beliefs. I respect those of you who have truly thought about the issue of abortion and have made a conscientious decision to hold the views that you do. Remarks in this note are not primarily directed toward you. I believe that the best way to resolve the issue is constructive discussion between those of differing opinions.
The aforementioned group I hold in esteem. Some other members of the conservative community do not show such tolerance, however. Believe it or not, those with pro-choice beliefs suffer considerable discrimination from those on the other side, however much organizations want to promote the idea of "anti-Christian hate". I have lost track of the number of times we have been denigrated as murderers and baby-killers. We are stereotyped as having no morals, as if conservative Christians were granted authority to self-righteously judge the values of all other people. The very terms "pro-life" and "pro-abortion" themselves have highly insulting implications. Am I "pro-death" if I support a woman's right to choose an abortion as an option of last resort? Am I anti-life? Because a majority of this country supports legal abortion (with varying degrees of restrictions) and by your standards, this country as a whole is "pro-death" or "anti-life".
Barack Obama said on 5 October 2004 at Benedictine University that "No one is pro-abortion". Think about that for a moment. That's right. Contrary to what some on the right may believe, we do not want more abortions. We do not want abortion to become a form of birth control. How many abortions would you like to be carried out in America? Zero? That's what I thought, because that's what I would like as well. That's what Bill Clinton said some years ago as he reprimanded a crowd of pro-choice supporters who cheered a legal victory. Let me repeat. NO ONE IS PRO-ABORTION.
We all share a goal of reducing the need for a woman to have an abortion. We all would love to live in a country where no vulnerable woman is pressured into having unprotected sex. There are just differing approaches on how to best reduce the number of abortions: through education and aid, or through a legal ban. You must understand this if there is to be a viable effort to reduce the number of abortions, we must understand each other. There are those on my side of the fence who do not care for the opinions of others, just as some people on your side. I disown those individuals. As much as I may disagree with you, I will show you respect and try to win you over through civil discussion. But if you call pro-choicers baby-killers and try to claim moral superiority, I can not reason with you. If you think we want abortions to be as widespread as the pill, I can not reason with you. While I respect the right of Silent Solidarity students to hold events, I cannot give credence to the actions of many of the participants. I am sorry for those of you who are not guilty of the accusations I have made, there are just too many among you who are. I cannot help but view the protest as a slight against the pro-choice community, despite the noble intentions of some of you.
Thank you for taking the time to read my note. Hopefully, this will clarify some misconceptions and move us further in the quest to reduce the number of abortions to zero.
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Thursday, September 4, 2008
John McCain's acceptance speech
Let me preface the rest of this post by listing the points of McCain's speech that I liked.
-The Iraq vet protesters with the "McCain votes against vets" sign
-Nuclear power
-Double the child tax exemption
That's all that I could find in my notes, there are probably a few more.
Now let's move on to the lies. I'll stick to the lies that I can debunk off the top of my head.
-"You have my respect..."-to Obama campaign: So all the personal attacks? That's respect? Wow, Obama should really be more respectful to McCain, shouldn't he?
-Palin's tax cuts: As far as I know, Palin did not cut taxes. Alaska has no state income or sales tax. She did give a $1200 tax rebate per citizen from oil money. A technicality but there is a difference.
-"The party of Lincoln, Roosevelt...": Yeah about that...you know blacks supported Lincoln. Southerners hated him. Robber barons hated Roosevelt. You know that thing called civil rights? Started with Lincoln. Oh and Lincoln instituted the first income tax. Party of Lincoln and Roosevelt my ass.
-Will appoint judges who don't legislate from the bench: So let me get this straight. When judges say that withholding habeas rights from prisoners at Gitmo, it's legislating from the bench. When judges say that a handgun ban is unconstitutional, it's doing their duty. When judges say that abortion is legal, it's legislating from the bench. But when you appoint judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade, it's not legislating from the bench? And since when could judges make law anyway? I should invite John McCain to my gov class.
-Obama will raise taxes: On Bill Gates maybe. Hell, the McCains even get a $5,641 tax break under Obama and they make 6 million bucks a year. I keep wondering why Obama doesn't hit McCain for this lie that he's repeated over and over in ad after ad.
-Obama will tax small businesses to force them to cut jobs: Didn't McCain listen to Obama's acceptance speech? Obama specifically mentioned a small business tax cut.
-Obama wants to bring back old jobs and McCain new ones: Apparently McCain doesn't watch much TV. He might have seen that Obama ad that says that we can retrain workers from the old economy to build a new one.
-Obama wants schools to answer to unions and bureaucrats: See above. And also, remember that crazy idea to eliminate tenure in exchange for higher salaries for competent teachers? That was Obama. This section on education I felt was extremely similar to Obama's during his acceptance speech.
===
That's all for the blatant lies. There were plenty of other semi-contradictory statements and positions I just don't agree with in the speech. Those may come later.
-The Iraq vet protesters with the "McCain votes against vets" sign
-Nuclear power
-Double the child tax exemption
That's all that I could find in my notes, there are probably a few more.
Now let's move on to the lies. I'll stick to the lies that I can debunk off the top of my head.
-"You have my respect..."-to Obama campaign: So all the personal attacks? That's respect? Wow, Obama should really be more respectful to McCain, shouldn't he?
-Palin's tax cuts: As far as I know, Palin did not cut taxes. Alaska has no state income or sales tax. She did give a $1200 tax rebate per citizen from oil money. A technicality but there is a difference.
-"The party of Lincoln, Roosevelt...": Yeah about that...you know blacks supported Lincoln. Southerners hated him. Robber barons hated Roosevelt. You know that thing called civil rights? Started with Lincoln. Oh and Lincoln instituted the first income tax. Party of Lincoln and Roosevelt my ass.
-Will appoint judges who don't legislate from the bench: So let me get this straight. When judges say that withholding habeas rights from prisoners at Gitmo, it's legislating from the bench. When judges say that a handgun ban is unconstitutional, it's doing their duty. When judges say that abortion is legal, it's legislating from the bench. But when you appoint judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade, it's not legislating from the bench? And since when could judges make law anyway? I should invite John McCain to my gov class.
-Obama will raise taxes: On Bill Gates maybe. Hell, the McCains even get a $5,641 tax break under Obama and they make 6 million bucks a year. I keep wondering why Obama doesn't hit McCain for this lie that he's repeated over and over in ad after ad.
-Obama will tax small businesses to force them to cut jobs: Didn't McCain listen to Obama's acceptance speech? Obama specifically mentioned a small business tax cut.
-Obama wants to bring back old jobs and McCain new ones: Apparently McCain doesn't watch much TV. He might have seen that Obama ad that says that we can retrain workers from the old economy to build a new one.
-Obama wants schools to answer to unions and bureaucrats: See above. And also, remember that crazy idea to eliminate tenure in exchange for higher salaries for competent teachers? That was Obama. This section on education I felt was extremely similar to Obama's during his acceptance speech.
===
That's all for the blatant lies. There were plenty of other semi-contradictory statements and positions I just don't agree with in the speech. Those may come later.
Monday, September 1, 2008
Palin's daughter pregnant
Yes, Palin's daughter is pregnant. No, it should not have anything to do with the campaign.
This announcement will make more waves with the very religious conservatives that McCain is supposedly reaching out to, than with moderates and Democrats who do not believe that family matters should be dragged into politics.
I severely criticize the rumormongers that have been circulating the rumor around liberal blogs that Palin faked a pregnancy to cover up for her daughter. But for Republicans to call foul and say Obama is behind the rumors (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2944356420080901?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true )...just as despicable. I applaud the mainstream media for at least placing Hurricane Gustav as the priority news item.
It goes to show the laserlike focus of our media that this has been picked up. To me, it is yet another family issue that shouldn't be in the media at all (guess I'm guilty of talking about it too). The nation should just let it go. Cheney has a lesbian daughter. Does it matter at all?
I will be severely disappointed if the Obama campaign does anything except offer its condolences to the Palin family. I will also be severely disappointed if the McCain campaign continues to link Obama's name to every piece of trash that comes out of the blogosphere.
Let's just let it go.
This announcement will make more waves with the very religious conservatives that McCain is supposedly reaching out to, than with moderates and Democrats who do not believe that family matters should be dragged into politics.
I severely criticize the rumormongers that have been circulating the rumor around liberal blogs that Palin faked a pregnancy to cover up for her daughter. But for Republicans to call foul and say Obama is behind the rumors (http://www.reuters.com/art
It goes to show the laserlike focus of our media that this has been picked up. To me, it is yet another family issue that shouldn't be in the media at all (guess I'm guilty of talking about it too). The nation should just let it go. Cheney has a lesbian daughter. Does it matter at all?
I will be severely disappointed if the Obama campaign does anything except offer its condolences to the Palin family. I will also be severely disappointed if the McCain campaign continues to link Obama's name to every piece of trash that comes out of the blogosphere.
Let's just let it go.
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
Saturday, August 23, 2008
Re: Obama Picks Biden
The following is a response to my post: Obama Picks Biden. Following that will be my counterresponse.
===Response===
First of all, I want to congradulate Biden for his vp nomination. I personally thought that Hillary Clinton could of brought the same message that Biden brought and more. She could of united the Democratic party and could of carried 18 million votes compared to Biden's 5,000. That's my opinion though. Biden is a good man and I respect him.
I want to mention this constant lie that McCain is like Bush. This is my message to Obama and others who think the same. Bush is not running this year, GET OVER IT! On the environment, U.S. diplomacy and nuclear proliferation, McCain has strikingly different views from Bush. And although he shares the president's goals in Iraq, he was always an outspoken critic of the way the war was managed.
Speaking of Iraq, the only reason why the White House now supports a withdrawel plan is because McCain's plan has worked. Obama wanted to pull out troops in a time that many though that Americans were losing the war in Iraq. We are now winning, and the Iraqis are beginning to stabilize the region by themselves, so Obama's plan works well now. The problem is that Obama wanted to pull out during a time that Iraq was in complete chaos. McCain was the first and one of the only men in the senate to push for the idea of the surge, and it now shows that he was right.
Back to the differences between McCain and Bush. McCain advocates the end to the detention of foreign terrorists in Cuba. Bush on the other hand thinks they should remain open. Unlike Bush, McCain is against any forced interrogation methods, such as Water-boarding. A week after the storm, McCain blasted Bush administration for the failed response to Hurricane Katrina.
There are other differences between McCain and Bush, but I think the most important difference is that Bush is clearly incompetent and McCain, though not perfect has shown clear competence. McCain would bring a different style, background and world view to the White House.
Secondly, Joe Biden is a good friend of John McCain. Biden said in many debates that Obama lacked experience. This could hurt the Obama campaign dramatically. He also said HIMSELF that he would be honored to campaign with or against McCain.
Although Biden has good foreign policy experience, he is the vp, not the president. I want a commander in chief, not someone who needs a mentor. Barack Obama is the president and he is going to have to make decisions on his own. He can't ask Biden for advise on every issue.
I will talk more about this topic, but I have to go to work right now.
===My Response===
You are correct that McCain differs from George Bush on diplomacy. Meaning he is even more of a neocon. Bush (or someone in his administration) has finally realized that diplomacy with hostile nations is the only way to solve problems, whereas McCain has repeated the "we deal with hostile nations with bombs not words" rhetoric.
You are also correct that the surge has worked and that McCain was correct about it. You do not remember the point I have made countless times before-that it is not the surge that determines one's judgement, it is the initial decision on the war. Obama stands alone in opposing the war from the beginning. Joe Biden himself has never come out and criticized the president for misleading the country into war, he has done what McCain has done and simply criticized its execution. This war could quite well produce a democratic paradise in Iraq. The country has forgotten that Bush did not take us into war to build a democracy. He took us into war to find weapons of mass destruction that he knew were not there. The tactics of the surge are up to the generals. Having knowledge of military strategy is far from a requirement to be president. I would much rather have someone who listens to advisors and can make a reasoned decision. The decision to go to war in the first place was the one that rested with the president. And Obama was right about that most important decision.
You must realize that calling McCain a Bush clone does not mean every single decision he will make will be the same. It is a way of pointing out McCain's vocal support for many of Bush's policies and his silence in opposing others. Biden today mentioned privatized social security. If you go to McCain's website, you will find that his health care plan is more of Bush's "more options" plan and none of the Democrats' socialized medicine. You will find that McCain wants to reverse the Roe v. Wade decision by appointing conservative judges. You will find that McCain does not support embryonic stem cell research to quickly find new cures for diseases. You will find a tax plan that gives more breaks to the wealthy than to the poor. I will not debate the merits of these positions here but I would like to point out that they look a lot like Bush's policies. On issues such as corruption, the environment, and the general competence of a McCain administration, he is much better than Bush and is as much of a change as Obama is. But those issues are less important than the economy, healthcare, and Iraq in the eyes of the voters. I agree, calling McCain a Bush clone does not do him justice. You could not have said that about the John McCain of 2000 or 2004. But his positions have moved more in line with Bush recently and I am really dismayed that such a great public servant has become the man he is today. McCain=Bush is not completely true. But it's a useful summary of many of his positions and it's good politics. It's better than much of the trash coming from the right.
Biden's past comments will do nothing to hurt Obama. In 1980, George H. W. Bush called Ronald Reagan's economic plan "voodoo economics" before he joined him as his vice president. It didn't hurt Reagan at all. Even though his plan of lowering taxes and increasing spending was total bullshit and eventually led to a HUGE deficit (not nearly Bush-sized), the voters didn't care about Bush 41's comments.
You need to remember that Hillary Clinton comes with a lot of people who hate her simply because she is Hillary Clinton. She comes with a lot more haters than new Obama voters. And she comes with a Bill Clinton who cannot be controlled by Obama. Although she is a great leader, it would not be politically feasible for Obama to pick her as VP. Besides, do you really think Clinton would tolerate being VP? She has much more clout in the Senate where she will most likely rise to leadership after the campaign. You will not catch a Clinton playing second fiddle to anyone.
I challenge you to show me an occasion where Obama has showed ignorance on foreign policy issues. Show me where he has erred (excluding the surge, I already addressed that) and showed that he doesn't know what he's talking about. You don't need to have served for a huge amount of time to know what's going on in the world. That's why the president has such a huge bureaucracy to aid him and give him information. I would much rather have a smart person who has smarter advisors as president. You don't have to know everything. John McCain knows absolutely nothing about the economy and has admitted it many times. Do you hold that against him? Henry Kissinger did pretty much all of Nixon's foreign policy. Does that detract from Nixon's accomplishments (visit to China, end of Vietnam)? You get the same result.
You will have to do better than say "Obama doesn't have experience" to convince me that his views are wrong. If people don't agree with his views, they won't care how much experience McCain has. Bush has one of the most experienced administrations in history. And you know how that turned out. People don't buy the experience argument as much as they used to.
===Response===
First of all, I want to congradulate Biden for his vp nomination. I personally thought that Hillary Clinton could of brought the same message that Biden brought and more. She could of united the Democratic party and could of carried 18 million votes compared to Biden's 5,000. That's my opinion though. Biden is a good man and I respect him.
I want to mention this constant lie that McCain is like Bush. This is my message to Obama and others who think the same. Bush is not running this year, GET OVER IT! On the environment, U.S. diplomacy and nuclear proliferation, McCain has strikingly different views from Bush. And although he shares the president's goals in Iraq, he was always an outspoken critic of the way the war was managed.
Speaking of Iraq, the only reason why the White House now supports a withdrawel plan is because McCain's plan has worked. Obama wanted to pull out troops in a time that many though that Americans were losing the war in Iraq. We are now winning, and the Iraqis are beginning to stabilize the region by themselves, so Obama's plan works well now. The problem is that Obama wanted to pull out during a time that Iraq was in complete chaos. McCain was the first and one of the only men in the senate to push for the idea of the surge, and it now shows that he was right.
Back to the differences between McCain and Bush. McCain advocates the end to the detention of foreign terrorists in Cuba. Bush on the other hand thinks they should remain open. Unlike Bush, McCain is against any forced interrogation methods, such as Water-boarding. A week after the storm, McCain blasted Bush administration for the failed response to Hurricane Katrina.
There are other differences between McCain and Bush, but I think the most important difference is that Bush is clearly incompetent and McCain, though not perfect has shown clear competence. McCain would bring a different style, background and world view to the White House.
Secondly, Joe Biden is a good friend of John McCain. Biden said in many debates that Obama lacked experience. This could hurt the Obama campaign dramatically. He also said HIMSELF that he would be honored to campaign with or against McCain.
Although Biden has good foreign policy experience, he is the vp, not the president. I want a commander in chief, not someone who needs a mentor. Barack Obama is the president and he is going to have to make decisions on his own. He can't ask Biden for advise on every issue.
I will talk more about this topic, but I have to go to work right now.
===My Response===
You are correct that McCain differs from George Bush on diplomacy. Meaning he is even more of a neocon. Bush (or someone in his administration) has finally realized that diplomacy with hostile nations is the only way to solve problems, whereas McCain has repeated the "we deal with hostile nations with bombs not words" rhetoric.
You are also correct that the surge has worked and that McCain was correct about it. You do not remember the point I have made countless times before-that it is not the surge that determines one's judgement, it is the initial decision on the war. Obama stands alone in opposing the war from the beginning. Joe Biden himself has never come out and criticized the president for misleading the country into war, he has done what McCain has done and simply criticized its execution. This war could quite well produce a democratic paradise in Iraq. The country has forgotten that Bush did not take us into war to build a democracy. He took us into war to find weapons of mass destruction that he knew were not there. The tactics of the surge are up to the generals. Having knowledge of military strategy is far from a requirement to be president. I would much rather have someone who listens to advisors and can make a reasoned decision. The decision to go to war in the first place was the one that rested with the president. And Obama was right about that most important decision.
You must realize that calling McCain a Bush clone does not mean every single decision he will make will be the same. It is a way of pointing out McCain's vocal support for many of Bush's policies and his silence in opposing others. Biden today mentioned privatized social security. If you go to McCain's website, you will find that his health care plan is more of Bush's "more options" plan and none of the Democrats' socialized medicine. You will find that McCain wants to reverse the Roe v. Wade decision by appointing conservative judges. You will find that McCain does not support embryonic stem cell research to quickly find new cures for diseases. You will find a tax plan that gives more breaks to the wealthy than to the poor. I will not debate the merits of these positions here but I would like to point out that they look a lot like Bush's policies. On issues such as corruption, the environment, and the general competence of a McCain administration, he is much better than Bush and is as much of a change as Obama is. But those issues are less important than the economy, healthcare, and Iraq in the eyes of the voters. I agree, calling McCain a Bush clone does not do him justice. You could not have said that about the John McCain of 2000 or 2004. But his positions have moved more in line with Bush recently and I am really dismayed that such a great public servant has become the man he is today. McCain=Bush is not completely true. But it's a useful summary of many of his positions and it's good politics. It's better than much of the trash coming from the right.
Biden's past comments will do nothing to hurt Obama. In 1980, George H. W. Bush called Ronald Reagan's economic plan "voodoo economics" before he joined him as his vice president. It didn't hurt Reagan at all. Even though his plan of lowering taxes and increasing spending was total bullshit and eventually led to a HUGE deficit (not nearly Bush-sized), the voters didn't care about Bush 41's comments.
You need to remember that Hillary Clinton comes with a lot of people who hate her simply because she is Hillary Clinton. She comes with a lot more haters than new Obama voters. And she comes with a Bill Clinton who cannot be controlled by Obama. Although she is a great leader, it would not be politically feasible for Obama to pick her as VP. Besides, do you really think Clinton would tolerate being VP? She has much more clout in the Senate where she will most likely rise to leadership after the campaign. You will not catch a Clinton playing second fiddle to anyone.
I challenge you to show me an occasion where Obama has showed ignorance on foreign policy issues. Show me where he has erred (excluding the surge, I already addressed that) and showed that he doesn't know what he's talking about. You don't need to have served for a huge amount of time to know what's going on in the world. That's why the president has such a huge bureaucracy to aid him and give him information. I would much rather have a smart person who has smarter advisors as president. You don't have to know everything. John McCain knows absolutely nothing about the economy and has admitted it many times. Do you hold that against him? Henry Kissinger did pretty much all of Nixon's foreign policy. Does that detract from Nixon's accomplishments (visit to China, end of Vietnam)? You get the same result.
You will have to do better than say "Obama doesn't have experience" to convince me that his views are wrong. If people don't agree with his views, they won't care how much experience McCain has. Bush has one of the most experienced administrations in history. And you know how that turned out. People don't buy the experience argument as much as they used to.
Obama Picks Biden
Unfortunately the Obama text message was sent at 3:23 AM so I wasn't able to report on this immediately.
Out of the names that were floating around, Biden was the one person who could turn around the slump that Obama's been having recently. Last week he dropped below McCain in the RealClearPolitics electoral vote count. McCain's lies and whines have been working.
Obama needs someone to strike back, and Biden has certainly shown a willingness to attack when he needs to. He might screw up once in a while but that's better than not saying anything at all.
McCain will also no longer be able to use his greatest weapon-his foreign policy "credentials". Yes, he was a prisoner of war, but he supported the Iraq War. Yes, he was a prisoner of war, but it is Obama's plan for withdrawal that has been vaguely endorsed by American generals and Iraqi politicians. Yes, he was a prisoner of war, but he does not realize that "surrender" is not an option in Iraq because we are not fighting a group that it is possible to surrender to. It's not quite that bad yet, but we're getting to the point that we can say McCain's sentences are composed of a noun, a verb, and "I was a prisoner of war". Not to say that McCain cheated at Saddleback (I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt), but what does being a prisoner of war have to do with that? War heroes can't cheat? What ever happened to Duke Cunningham? Or that guy Benedict Arnold? Of course I'm not comparing McCain to either of those people, but he can't keep using the prisoner of war card like it's a get out of jail free card. I see him using that tactic far more than Obama has pulled his race card.
I just hope that the Obama-Biden joint appearance today will be the start of a new campaign phase, where the Democrats actually get their act together and go attack the other candidate. And we can attack McCain with truth, instead of the lies he's using. You can't pull the prisoner of war card on the truth.
Out of the names that were floating around, Biden was the one person who could turn around the slump that Obama's been having recently. Last week he dropped below McCain in the RealClearPolitics electoral vote count. McCain's lies and whines have been working.
Obama needs someone to strike back, and Biden has certainly shown a willingness to attack when he needs to. He might screw up once in a while but that's better than not saying anything at all.
McCain will also no longer be able to use his greatest weapon-his foreign policy "credentials". Yes, he was a prisoner of war, but he supported the Iraq War. Yes, he was a prisoner of war, but it is Obama's plan for withdrawal that has been vaguely endorsed by American generals and Iraqi politicians. Yes, he was a prisoner of war, but he does not realize that "surrender" is not an option in Iraq because we are not fighting a group that it is possible to surrender to. It's not quite that bad yet, but we're getting to the point that we can say McCain's sentences are composed of a noun, a verb, and "I was a prisoner of war". Not to say that McCain cheated at Saddleback (I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt), but what does being a prisoner of war have to do with that? War heroes can't cheat? What ever happened to Duke Cunningham? Or that guy Benedict Arnold? Of course I'm not comparing McCain to either of those people, but he can't keep using the prisoner of war card like it's a get out of jail free card. I see him using that tactic far more than Obama has pulled his race card.
I just hope that the Obama-Biden joint appearance today will be the start of a new campaign phase, where the Democrats actually get their act together and go attack the other candidate. And we can attack McCain with truth, instead of the lies he's using. You can't pull the prisoner of war card on the truth.
Tuesday, August 19, 2008
Chinese Olympic Gymnastics Hate Groups
Let me preface all of this by saying that I don't believe that the some of the women on the Chinese Olympics Gymnastics team are over 16. Obviously the government changed their passports. It does violate the rules but it's for the IOC and the IGF to decide what should happen.
But let me make this point: do the Chinese women deserve to be stripped of their medals because they are underage? Did they not show that they are the best gymnastics team in the world? Barring some scoring controversies, they showed that they deserve to be called the best gymnasts in the world. And the scoring controversies have nothing to do with a home advantage or bias, as the judging panel is not allowed to have members from the teams they are judging. If anything, scoring errors are what caused the American gymnasts to lose out on some medals that they deserved.
===
Here is but one of the many hate groups you will find on Facebook.
"I Hope When the Chinese Olympic Gymnasts Get Their Periods, It Kills Them"
No explanation needed. I invite everyone to report the group.
===
Some samples from other groups:
"Maybe that's true Silas. Yes we might be whiney. But we are venting about the injustice that is going on in what is suppose to be a fair world competition. It might not change, that's true. But at least we have a place where we can talk out all the cheating that's going on in these events.
The fact that Nastia tied with that Chinese girl and got second is sickening. I'm not sure how that is possible. And Devon is right. We should have known going in there that the world basically hates Americans. Especially the Chinese. Geez we have more freedom then they do, and they are working in in Sweatshops for like 5 cents an hour making products that go to America. and they probably don't see any of the profit. So the Least they could do is cheat and give their country the gold medal(s). That's probably the only gold or profit these girls will see in their lifetime. It's just disheartening."
Apparently this person thinks he can sympathize with the working conditions in China (which he misstates) and sympathize with the gymnasts and trash everything else about China. Not to mention his ignorance of the tiebreaking procedure. Once again, note the victim attitude of "everyone hates America, including China". Looking at the rapid rate at which China is consuming American cultural exports, I'd like to know where he gets this impression.
===
"FUCK THESE OLYMPICS AND LET ALL THE JUDGES ROT IN HELL"
This guy really knows what he's talking about. China has definitely been suppressing the rights of Taiwanese who they don't even have control over. China doesn't deserve to have control over Tibet (a historical part of many Chinese empires) because...well...we said so? The author surely knows how to judge a gymnastics routine better than professional judges. And when American athletes get points off because they fall and make mistakes? That's called getting "fucked over".
===
The rest of the groups are filled with the same kind of hate, which spreads to misinformed rants about other issues. No one seems to remember that the tiebreaking procedure that gave the gold to He Kexin over Nastia Liukin was put in place before the competition and has been released to the public. No one seems to remember the judging scandals that took place at the 2004 Olympics No one seems to remember that the point of the Olympics is to find the best athletes. If the best athletes are underage, then they deserve to win, even if they can't compete.
Nastia Liukin herself said it best. "(He) is an excellent athlete, no matter how old she is. She's done her hard work and her preparation, and she deserved that gold medal tonight."
America seems to have forgotten that it doesn't own the world. If something goes against us, we whine and scream and throw a tantrum until the rest of the world is either scared into changing things or just sick of our behavior. So the Chinese overstated their age. Big deal. Yes it's against the rules but does it help their performance? I'd say it gives them a disadvantage to have a younger team with less experience. America has no room to talk when our athletes regularly take performance enhancing drugs and don't get punished. Our athletes are all about the money and the fame that they get from success. Not to say that some don't deserve it, there are many professional athletes who are great people as well. But we have plenty who get arrested from everything from murder to dog fighting. The Chinese gymnasts are hardworking girls who came from poor families. They gave it their all to have a shot at becoming Olympic champions. They compete for their country. You may fault the government for cheating, but surely you can't fault the athletes themselves?
Once again, I repeat my belief that the Chinese gymnasts are not all of competition age and that under IGF rules, it is not allowed. The final resolution of the situation is not for anyone else to decide. But let me caution anyone who shares the views of the people posting in the various hate groups. It does not help your case when all you can do is whine and complain about technicalities. A true Olympic champion does not whine. It does not help you win a gold medal if you make personal attacks against the opponent. Just ask Frenchman Alain Bernard, whose "We'll smash the Americans" comment was just your normal pre-competition tough talk. It does not help your case when you are a country with as little international credibility as the United States. When you have many athletes back home who juice and do drugs and get arrested for violence. Yes, cheating is wrong. Yes, there were judging errors. But humans are not perfect. There is always controversy at the Olympics. This time is no different. Just because for once, the United States is losing out doesn't mean it's any more important or any worse a violation than before.
But let me make this point: do the Chinese women deserve to be stripped of their medals because they are underage? Did they not show that they are the best gymnastics team in the world? Barring some scoring controversies, they showed that they deserve to be called the best gymnasts in the world. And the scoring controversies have nothing to do with a home advantage or bias, as the judging panel is not allowed to have members from the teams they are judging. If anything, scoring errors are what caused the American gymnasts to lose out on some medals that they deserved.
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Here is but one of the many hate groups you will find on Facebook.
"I Hope When the Chinese Olympic Gymnasts Get Their Periods, It Kills Them"
No explanation needed. I invite everyone to report the group.
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Some samples from other groups:
"Maybe that's true Silas. Yes we might be whiney. But we are venting about the injustice that is going on in what is suppose to be a fair world competition. It might not change, that's true. But at least we have a place where we can talk out all the cheating that's going on in these events.
The fact that Nastia tied with that Chinese girl and got second is sickening. I'm not sure how that is possible. And Devon is right. We should have known going in there that the world basically hates Americans. Especially the Chinese. Geez we have more freedom then they do, and they are working in in Sweatshops for like 5 cents an hour making products that go to America. and they probably don't see any of the profit. So the Least they could do is cheat and give their country the gold medal(s). That's probably the only gold or profit these girls will see in their lifetime. It's just disheartening."
Apparently this person thinks he can sympathize with the working conditions in China (which he misstates) and sympathize with the gymnasts and trash everything else about China. Not to mention his ignorance of the tiebreaking procedure. Once again, note the victim attitude of "everyone hates America, including China". Looking at the rapid rate at which China is consuming American cultural exports, I'd like to know where he gets this impression.
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"FUCK THESE OLYMPICS AND LET ALL THE JUDGES ROT IN HELL"
This guy really knows what he's talking about. China has definitely been suppressing the rights of Taiwanese who they don't even have control over. China doesn't deserve to have control over Tibet (a historical part of many Chinese empires) because...well...we said so? The author surely knows how to judge a gymnastics routine better than professional judges. And when American athletes get points off because they fall and make mistakes? That's called getting "fucked over".
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The rest of the groups are filled with the same kind of hate, which spreads to misinformed rants about other issues. No one seems to remember that the tiebreaking procedure that gave the gold to He Kexin over Nastia Liukin was put in place before the competition and has been released to the public. No one seems to remember the judging scandals that took place at the 2004 Olympics No one seems to remember that the point of the Olympics is to find the best athletes. If the best athletes are underage, then they deserve to win, even if they can't compete.
Nastia Liukin herself said it best. "(He) is an excellent athlete, no matter how old she is. She's done her hard work and her preparation, and she deserved that gold medal tonight."
America seems to have forgotten that it doesn't own the world. If something goes against us, we whine and scream and throw a tantrum until the rest of the world is either scared into changing things or just sick of our behavior. So the Chinese overstated their age. Big deal. Yes it's against the rules but does it help their performance? I'd say it gives them a disadvantage to have a younger team with less experience. America has no room to talk when our athletes regularly take performance enhancing drugs and don't get punished. Our athletes are all about the money and the fame that they get from success. Not to say that some don't deserve it, there are many professional athletes who are great people as well. But we have plenty who get arrested from everything from murder to dog fighting. The Chinese gymnasts are hardworking girls who came from poor families. They gave it their all to have a shot at becoming Olympic champions. They compete for their country. You may fault the government for cheating, but surely you can't fault the athletes themselves?
Once again, I repeat my belief that the Chinese gymnasts are not all of competition age and that under IGF rules, it is not allowed. The final resolution of the situation is not for anyone else to decide. But let me caution anyone who shares the views of the people posting in the various hate groups. It does not help your case when all you can do is whine and complain about technicalities. A true Olympic champion does not whine. It does not help you win a gold medal if you make personal attacks against the opponent. Just ask Frenchman Alain Bernard, whose "We'll smash the Americans" comment was just your normal pre-competition tough talk. It does not help your case when you are a country with as little international credibility as the United States. When you have many athletes back home who juice and do drugs and get arrested for violence. Yes, cheating is wrong. Yes, there were judging errors. But humans are not perfect. There is always controversy at the Olympics. This time is no different. Just because for once, the United States is losing out doesn't mean it's any more important or any worse a violation than before.
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